Posted by: Ed | July 24, 2008

Panel Discussion on The Church & Homosexuality

This discussion between Chuck Coleson, Greg Boyd & Shane Claiborne is very helpful, especially Greg’s comments.

For you journey types who are planning to be there this weekend as we we speak on gay marriage, I would make the following suggestion:

* Pray for me as I speak – that I would be full of Jesus & thus Grace & Truth

* Watch this video (maybe some of the other segments of this panel discussion)

* MAKE SURE you have heard last week’s message! I can’t emphasis this enough. If nothing else look over the outline.

* Plan to come to the “EXTENDED CHAT ROOM” Sunday evening from 6:00 – 7:30 in the Video Cafe if you have questions, need clarification, or want to talk further about this.

See you Friday / Sunday & maybe Sunday night!

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Responses

  1. Ed – the service tonight was great. Once you put it in the terms all sin is equal and how did this become the biggest sin; I could see some of my own narow thinking. The point is so simple that we are suppose to love and support each other. I guess so simple we forget. Thanks for reminding us. On Sunday I will be going with my husband to the service, hope he doesn’t catch on that his sin is the same as mine. )))

  2. Ed, your message today was incredibly loving, heartwarming and compassionate. When we were married, Lisette and I searched so long for the right church for our family, and you reaffirm our choice weekly. I cried during today’s message and Lisette asked why. It was simply happiness. I’m so proud of our church. We wanted so much to be part of a Christian family/community that welcomes our brothers and sisters, all of them . . . all of us . . . as we are. Broken. Hurt. Wanting more Christ in our lives. Wanting to heal. Wanting forgiveness. Wanting to love and be loved. As you said in your 3:10 to Yuma message, we must be careful not to excuse our own sin while condemning others. We must not judge. We must value the worth of every human being. Thank you so much for thoughtfully, intelligently, and lovingly conveying Christ’s teachings to us once again.

  3. When I first came out, eight years ago, my church told me that God would not be their for me if I was going to be “that way”. Needless to say, I didn’t go back. I have been searching for a church every since. Well God never left my side….He led me to Journey.
    I finally found a Home for me and my family.

    Thank You

  4. Ed,

    You and the entire pastor team did a great job with this divisive topic. Some great lessons and insights for me were:

    ** The need for us all to realize our own sin (the log in our eye) is the issue that keeps us separate from Christ, and that someone else’s sin is to be our reason to pray.

    ** The path of each one who walks with Christ leads to His breaking of our broken lives, the breaking of our broken patterns of choice, and the building of His grace in us.

    ** The church’s reliance on grace as a valid response will not compromise His righteousness, His work in us, nor the truth of justice. Instead, it fulfills it.

    ** The body of Christ is a community of inclusion, not exclusion. It is the practice of God-powered acceptance and love that defines us, not our ability to judge behavioral criteria. Only God knows the path of brokenness that leads any one of us into sin, and only He can judge rightly.

    Thanks for taking some extra time to answer more questions past 7:30, tonight. The knowledge and insight God has placed within you is a blessing to all of us.

    Thanks.

    P.S. One more question – when you told us how the church that had been persecuted for 300 years began executing heretics within two years of gaining legitimate political standing and power through the Edict of Milan, it made me wonder: if the church gains a political victory by passing a ban on gay marriage, will it have more grace for those who sin?

    Obviously, the topic is gay marriage and homosexuality in our national culture, but since all sins are equal in their ability to keep us from God’s glory, I wonder what persecution the “church” may enact next. Perhaps the legalistic keepers of the law will ban fornicators from marriage, or maybe liars, or greedy gossips.

  5. I always remember the analogy about how “good” one has to be to get to Heaven. Well, if “perfect” is how high that bar is set, then that is equivalent of a high jump to the moon. Us “sinners” on Earth just argue about how much better I am than you… I can high jump seven feet and you only two feet… though neither of us can clear the bar of perfection a quarter-of-a-million miles high, so why even compare? We ALL need Christ and his perfection to clear the bar.
    Good to hear again… all comparing / judging is sinful. My job is to love and witness about God’s grace.

  6. Sup Ed,

    I really enjoyed the message. I didn’t get to hear the end because both messages were cut short in the download. I have a few questions and thoughts regarding this topic.

    Would a homosexual enter into heaven even if they believed in Jesus and His saving grace? Mind you, this is a homosexual who is living “in” sin daily and not repentant of the sin and seeking change or to cut out the sin of sexual perversion.

    Are we not called to be Holy as He is Holy?

    If a man believes in Jesus, professes to be Christian and is a thief, and continues to be a thief, Who does not repent and change to be Holy, would this person enter heaven?
    Matthew 7:21-23 shows us that not everyone will enter into heaven, even those who say Lord, Lord. He will say “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

    Or take any other sexual relation for that matter taken to a logical extreme. If someone is raping women and children, even though it is wrong and sinful in God’s eyes, and does not repent and turn from his evil ways, will Christ not say, away from me, you evildoers! ?

    Homosexuality is a sin, just like any sin. But can there be a Homosexual Christian? In the same way, can there be a Homicidal Christian? Or a Thieving Christian, a Adulterous Christian? The list can go on.

    Also, as to “why this is “the” sin we all get behind” as a church, I don’t think that this is “the” sin. I think that the church is attacking “all” sin and the media, along with the legislation, is making it seem like this is “the” sin that the church stands up for. I don’t see the media, or legislation for that matter, condemning the church for fighting Alcoholism, drug abuse, Idolatry, covetousness, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander and many other sins.

    Even though there are many other sins that should be outlawed, why stand against the church, or even be passive, in THE issue?

    Why not rally behind the legislation and stop the gay marriage?

    Remember when we lost prayer in schools?
    Or when we legalized abortion?
    How about taking God out of the Pledge elegance?
    Or even taking God out of the oath that you take in Court?

    I know that America is not God’s chosen country/people, Israel is, but the more that God is taken out of our country the less God-like it will be. Taken to an extreme, the more evil it will be.

    Or, like any other sin, should we as Christians be passive on this homosexual issue? Should we not vote for the proposition to ban Gay marriage? When should we as Christians stand up for our society, our morals, our God?

    About the Grace of God, it is not to be taken that we deserve Grace. We deserve death and hell. Even though we have grace, shall we keep sinning? Heavens NO!. Romans 6:1-4 If we keep sinning without repentance grace will not abound. Grace is for God to give and for us to receive. We cannot make Him give us more, even though we sin more. We are all called to repent, turn from our sins, and sin no more.

    Thanks for taking the time Ed.
    D

  7. Gay marriage is wrong and must be stopped. Yes on Prop 8.


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